Author Topic: The power conditioning thread  (Read 8282 times)

jb

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Re: The power conditioning thread
« Reply #15 on: May 03, 2017, 09:44:23 AM »
welcome to forum, Sumotan... yes please do share your DIY line filter on our DIY forum, some users may be interest to try out. Actually all the high end HiFi audio in the past use to be  enthusiast audiophile that are not satisfy with the mass market brand audio product sound quality and they DIY in the garage and thus highend HiFi was born. This forum highly encourage DIY  so users will benefit from.

As for your line filter design, if the inductor is in series with the power supply line, then the inductor's resistance and self resonant frequency has to be carefully design, else it will limit the high current required by high power transistor amp. It will tend to soften the bass impact and slow down the music overall...

sumotan

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Re: The power conditioning thread
« Reply #16 on: May 03, 2017, 11:08:58 PM »
Good that you brought up the subject in transient response.
In general be it isolation transformers etc does affect amplifiers
most mainly be ause of the current draw need. What you mentioned
is correct. Re my custom wound inductors I actually had some advice
& exchanges of emails with Jon Risch back then before I proceeded.
I haven't been messing around with conditioner since. Perhaps later
as I find more satisfaction by building testing & tweaking my set up
for now. Only restarted this hobby after a lapse of 15 yrs or so due
to work commitments. Anyway anyone interested can google to dig
out the schematics. Should give it a try, cost peanuts to make so
nothing much to loose

Cheers
 

jb

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Re: The power conditioning thread
« Reply #17 on: May 03, 2017, 11:46:56 PM »
I have look at the Jon Risch line filter, it is actually a low pass filter. For very high current transistor amp will be a problem as some can draw high transient current of 15A. But for tube amp gear should be ok.

If forumer are interest, I can do a simulation of the circuit to see where the cut off frequency at....

sumotan

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Re: The power conditioning thread
« Reply #18 on: May 04, 2017, 01:00:12 AM »
Thank you would be good for diyers.
I've been using it in my 160 watts amp for years
& there's not any hold back in current delivery at
all hence after testing I build it into the amp

Cheers

watchdog

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Re: The power conditioning thread
« Reply #19 on: May 06, 2017, 07:30:14 PM »
Nice thread but it would be nicer to also include some diy ideas instead
of having to spend mega dollars. Let me start if I may, go try out the good
old Jon Risch line filter. It works on amps real good cause I build one into
my amp. The difference in mine were the inductors, I hand it wound with thick
wire over laminated (I) plates instead of the recommended Corcom ones.
There is a little draw back though, for the filter to work really good, one has
to load the filter with a 100 watt incendescent bulb. With & without loading
the SQ is immediate no 2 ways about it.

Cheers

Wow. It's been a while since I've seen the incandescent bulb trick.

In fact, it's quite common to see some type of filter circuit built in to audio components. Some of the stuff I've seen are (i) encapsulated IEC inlet filters, (ii) capacitors across L-N and sometimes additional capacitors across L and N to E, (iii) common mode chokes.

sumotan

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Re: The power conditioning thread
« Reply #20 on: May 07, 2017, 03:43:05 PM »
Yes watchdog common in light current draw equipment
but not in amps. In any case loading is a must in circuitry
to ensure stabilty & optimum performace.

Cheers

jb

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Re: The power conditioning thread
« Reply #21 on: May 08, 2017, 10:40:35 PM »
But passive filter only can filter out noise signal and cannot compensate for distortion of our incoming AC power supply, I have noticed our line voltage will change from 230V to 239V depend the time of the day and with typical distortion of 2%.

If only we can have an active regeneration of AC then will be rid of this distortion. Attached is a technical paper of regenerative AC prototype by NTU professor, DR Low, he used a DSP to control the regenerate AC sine wave with variable voltage and frequency. May be should visit him one of this day and see whether his prototype can be use for our audio application (attached IEEE paper)

Wizardofoz

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Re: The power conditioning thread
« Reply #22 on: May 09, 2017, 12:06:17 PM »
I have a friend who's company makes online UPS/Regulators and they have a new model coming out that I will be trailing - its not really for HIFI use but is active regeneration and can handle from 1-3KV and even larger models.

Only issue with this kind of gear is its either noisy (physically) or very expensive if silent - normally hifi types.

I will install the sample perhaps down in my kitchen area where the noise will not be an issue (fridge etc all there) and away from my HT/HIFI - but connect to my dedicated power runs.

sumotan

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Re: The power conditioning thread
« Reply #23 on: May 09, 2017, 03:15:20 PM »
Very true JB on the other hand regeneration is adding another component
that mucks with AC which may or may not sound good even if the AC is
cleaner, quieter & stable. A simpler solution & less costly but not as quiet as regeneration
is something like the Felicia balance line AC which should be very good for low current
equipment & if you can get a transfomer guy to wind an input of 240v then voltage
variation at output will not be that much. Don't know but for me a passive solution
is more logical to me in context to AC outlet.

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jb

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Re: The power conditioning thread
« Reply #24 on: May 09, 2017, 10:45:50 PM »
Ok, the Felicia circuit is having an isolated transformer , then follow by a balance transformer. ya this circuit will work as few users has report positive results using balance transformer. But active regeneration work very well in multi system that I listen to ...

sumotan

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Re: The power conditioning thread
« Reply #25 on: May 10, 2017, 01:26:21 AM »
Hi JB
originally it was again something the Jon Risch played with
a very cheap & simple solution by using normal tranformers
which can be bought off the shelf by connecting them back
to back & in between adding a cap. Somewhere along the line
it was improve by others how using dual primaries with centre tap
output also connected back to back which automatically turn the
primaries into balance out. For low current application, this is a
really cheap solution as compared with buying big expansive
balance transfomers. Yes AC regeneration may be better but
just look at what it cost & when you factor this in how much
better is it over what we can diy with the right stuff ?
Would be great if someday you could drop by my place, have
a listen to my set up but pls dont fall of the chair when you see
what I use for power cords, speaker cables etc.
I graduated from the Wadia & Jadis camp before I started diy.
Not saying that all that's out there isn't good but it's always
a point of dimishing returns once you pass a certain expenditure
level

Cheers

jb

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Re: The power conditioning thread
« Reply #26 on: May 10, 2017, 01:07:22 PM »
Sumotan, ya I agree balance will work well with low current application by reducing noise from supply line. I don't think AC regeneration will cost that much extra if we can DIY it, u still have a large transformer and just need an extra inverter circuit that does not cost much. We can cut away all those fancy display or network connection, just down to basic inverter circuit design. If I come across this type of circuit, will make a prototype and try it out....

wait till my next holiday to Batam, will surely go and listen to u system. I always keep an open mind on sound system although a lot does not pass the traditional electronic theory, but it does work in actaul... look at my listening report at Dr Wong hifi setup, he is using CAT 5e cable for all his interconnect, and his system sound can ravel many hifi system costing $$$.

Branded HIFI normally have a guru behind that is passionate with the audio idea he had and perfect it in to a product that they can monetize it. Of course if u like a certain brand sound , u will follow and listen to that particular audio brand...the buying decision is more emotional than rational sometime...of course if you can DIY some that is a big plus, as long as u can get the sound u like.

I do prefer to buying audio equipment to support the product designer for their passionate effort put into the design so as to keep our hobby. Also as we upgrade equipment in this hobby, brand audio equipment has resale value that can fund next upgrade...pro and con. I will only DIY for small projects...

 

 

sumotan

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Re: The power conditioning thread
« Reply #27 on: May 11, 2017, 01:21:05 AM »
Yes JB thank you would be nice to meet you in person even if my system sucks at least I get
to meet an impartial audio friend. Btw me & Dr. Wong can be buddies, I too use Cat 5E.

Looking forward to meet you

Cheers

lucasng

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Re: The power conditioning thread
« Reply #28 on: May 11, 2017, 03:03:29 PM »
Hello guys,

I'm using an isolation transformer myself, having came from furman condtioners - sine power strips - plixir bac2000 - plixir elementa2500 - torus tot mini 3(For sources). I've to testify that power should not be regarded as something secondary. The power coming from the power conditioner changes sound so drastically that without a proper unit, the potential of one's equipments that follow may not be maximised. Like equipments, power conditioners has their very own sound signature. It's tough to describe whether isolation transformers are better than power regeneration devices having not compared them side by side. I'll be keen to give this a shot in due time.

The isolation transformer i'm using now is in fact, none of the above mentioned. I've customed made mine with the help of Robert from Art Audio. The total cost, SGD$3000. The conditioner design was built from the ground up, synthesizing inputs from various sources(including inspecting products ive owned previously, reading forums, receiving feedback from customers and audiophiles alike) and of course, countless listening sessions following after each tweak. Having done a shootout between the one i'm using with other products available in the market, I'm certain that the engine(isolation transformer) driving my system is superior in tonality, separation and spatial representation compared to products costing twice as much. The verdict was further supported by 7 out of 9 individuals after the most recent shootout.

I've heard from Robert that with the positive feedback from customers he's getting, he will be releasing the isolation transformer as a full fledged product with stocks being made available in a months time. A special call out to all bros out there, I would sincerely like you to give this product a shot. It will definitely transform your system, providing maximum detail retrieval in the most natural way. A friend of mine was at my place yesterday and he only had one word to describe the isolation transformer, "Effortless".

For further details on the isolation transformer/trial session, kindly contact me at
9 one one 5 2 four 8 7

Thanks for reading.

jb

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Re: The power conditioning thread
« Reply #29 on: May 11, 2017, 09:23:53 PM »
Hi Lucas, great that the isolation transformer work well in your system, may be u can show some photo of your isolation transformer setup so users that are interest in the product can preview it. What brand of transformer is used in the setup?