Author Topic: Tube amplifier basics  (Read 10612 times)

watchdog

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Tube amplifier basics
« on: September 19, 2016, 02:03:25 PM »
I'm starting this thread to introduce the wonderful world of tube amplifiers to everyone.

I've been using tube amplifiers since the early part of my audiophile days (once I had enough money to move on from the popular British budget amps of days gone past). Tube amps are not for everyone though, but I will explain why I like tube amps. Put simply, they are able to convey a liquidity and dimensionality that is hard to find in solid state designs. Enough so, that I willingly put up with practical issues such as heat, re-tubing costs and limited power.

Here are some frequently asked questions and my personal take on them,

1. Should I choose a single-ended triode ("SET") amp, or a push-pull design ?

It really depends on how efficient your speaker is, and the type of music you listen to. SET amps generally have very limited power (think single digit watts !). From a purist approach, most audiophiles believe that the design of a SET is more "pure". I can tell you from experience that there are plenty of bad examples of both SET and push-pull amps out there.
 
2. I want an amp based on x tubes because I've been told that it has the most magical midrange / high frequencies / staging etc * (*choose whichever applies)

While the tubes used have an influence on sound, there is a ton of other factors such as the circuit design and parts used. 300b based amplifiers do not all sound the same, and this applies to any other tube out there.

3. Why does a tube amplifier have speaker taps ? I have a 6 ohm speaker but the tube amplifier I am looking at only has 4 and 8 ohm taps.

Almost all (you do have special designs that don't have output transformers) tube power amps have an output transformer to couple the power tubes to the speaker load. You should choose an amp with speaker taps that are the same as your nominal speaker load. That being said, nominal impedance is just that - nominal. Impedance will fluctuate at different frequencies. If you have a 6 ohm speaker load, it could very well be 4 ohms or 8 ohms at different frequencies. Choose whichever tap sounds best to you in such a case.

4. My tube amplifier uses tube x. Can I substitute tube y ?

You always get this temptation, especially after reading the internet about some random guy that has tried 6550 or KT88 tubes in his EL34 amplifier (all 3 tubes use the same socket). Always get clearance from your manufacturer before trying this. Even if the tubes work properly initially, it could shorten the life of your amplifier or even damage it. When the KT120 tube was launched, many people with 6550 / KT88 amps wanted to give it a shot. The KT120 uses more heater current. Your manufacturer should know whether your amp's heater supply is up to the task or not.

5. Can I buy tubes from anywhere, or must I get them from the manufacturer of my amp ? Do I need matched pairs / quads etc for power tubes, or preamp tubes with matched sections or low noise ?

You generally can get them from any reliable supplier. However, some manufacturers have selected tubes that are required for their equipment to perform optimally. In some high gain designs for example, the manufacturer may have selected tubes for low noise / microphony.

If you can get matched pairs / quads for power tubes, by all means get them. It is no guarantee though that they will remain matched in your amp over long term use ! If you have a fixed bias amp that only has one bias trim pot per channel (for a push pull amp), or heaven forbid, one trim pot for the whole amp, then you will need matched power tubes since you can only adjust bias in for a specified group of tubes.

Low noise tubes, or matched sections for preamp tubes are only necessary if recommended by your manufacturer. Otherwise, you just end up wasting money for nothing. I have some finicky equipment that are very selective on tubes. Many tubes that are too noisy for this amp work just fine on other equipment.

6. How often must I replace my tubes ?

Your manufacturer will have a recommendation on when this needs to be done. It depends very much on how hard the tube is being run, and the ventilation you have. Preamp tubes generally last a lot longer than power amp tubes.

7. How often must I check the bias of my power tubes ?

There is no real need to check the bias of your power tubes religiously, nor a need to bias them to atomic clock precision levels. I always check the bias of my power tubes when I replace them, and I'll follow up to check it after a few days of use, and maybe a month down the road. After that, I'll just check it once every 4-6 months. In fact, checking them too often and fiddling with the bias pots everyday wears them out.

8. Do all tube amps sound warm, syrupy and "thick" ?

Nope. I've heard solid state amps that sound like tube amps and vice versa. Most brands have a certain house sound and some brands have a more romantic sound, while some others really sound fast and linear.

9. Singapore has 230V mains voltage. Is it OK to import a tube amp rated for 220 or 240 V AC operation ?

Ask the manufacturer. Depending on how high / low the plate voltage is, and how the heater voltage is derived, this could be a problem. In a worse case scenario, your amp rated for 220 VAC could see incoming mains voltages as high as 240-250V (not uncommon in Singapore). This could result in higher plate and heater voltages and other nasty things. Not good for your amp.

In theory, a 240V model used with a 230V supply would result in the converse, overall low voltages in the amp. Also not good. However, in practice very few people in Singapore have voltages spot on at 230V or below that. Most are on the higher side anyway. In that sense, it makes sense to go for a 240V model over a 220V model.

10. I want a tube amp with balanced inputs and outputs. Why are there so few on the market ?

There are very few tube preamps with true balanced signal paths. A 2 channel preamp with a true balanced signal path is actually a 4 channel preamp (normal and inverted left, normal and inverted right). To reduce costs, many of the tube preamps that offer balanced inputs and outputs actually use converters (whether transformer or circuit based) to convert balanced signals to single ended, and then vice versa on the output. 

11. I want to match a tube preamp with a solid state power amp.

Quite a popular approach. Very powerful tube power amps are expensive, hot and bulky. Why not combine a tube preamp and a solid state power amp ? You get the tone of tubes, and the power and slam from solid state.

Most tube preamps have a fairly high output impedance. When you couple a preamp with a high output impedance, with a solid state power amp with a not so high input impedance, you will get high frequency roll-off. You should aim for at least 50x difference, e.g. a tube preamp with an output impedance of 1K ohm should be paired with a power amp of at least 50K ohm input impedance. Depending on who you ask, you will get all kinds of answers, like 10x, 20x, 100x.

Tube preamps that do not have start-up muting circuits may also make pretty nasty noises upon turn on / warm-up, so you have to develop the habit of switching on the preamp first, waiting for a minute or so, before turning on the solid state power amp.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2016, 01:06:26 PM by watchdog »

sydney1128

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Re: Tube amplifier basics
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2016, 12:18:10 PM »
Bro Watchdog,

I plan to start playing tubes.
Have some questions to ask...

Q1) If the power amp can accept KT88, 90 and 120, can we actually mix some of the tubes in the power amp? Can we get any sound at all or the amp might even blown up?

Q2) There are many tube brands in the market, is there any specific signature sound from certain brands that we can "expect" from?

Q3) Most people said tube bass are normally "fatter", not as tight like transistor amp. Is there anyway around to get a tighter & punchier bass from tube amp? Or maybe only the super high end models of tube power amp then can achieve it?

Please advise and share some pointers.
Thank you.

watchdog

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Re: Tube amplifier basics
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2016, 10:07:57 PM »
Sure. Here are my thoughts on your questions.

Bro Watchdog,

I plan to start playing tubes.
Have some questions to ask...

Q1) If the power amp can accept KT88, 90 and 120, can we actually mix some of the tubes in the power amp? Can we get any sound at all or the amp might even blown up?

A1) No you shouldn't. If you don't have individual bias pots, it would be impossible to properly match the tubes. Even if you had individual bias pots, you shouldn't do this. You will get sound, but in a push-pull circuit, your tube pair would be imbalanced. To use an analogy, you wouldn't want to use difference interconnects for your right and left channel would you ?

Q2) There are many tube brands in the market, is there any specific signature sound from certain brands that we can "expect" from?

A2) I think it is very difficult to generalise about a particular tube brand's house sound and it would be best for you to try in your own amp. Sure, there are plenty of thoughts on this, like vintage Mullards sound warm, and Telefunkens sound bright. But here is a quick primer on buying tubes for beginners,

(i) always buy tubes from reputable sources. Ebay tubes ? It's the luck of the draw. Almost everyone claims to have a properly calibrated tube tester and claims that the vintage tubes they sell test strong. Worse still, there are plenty of fake tubes out there too.

(ii) vintage tubes are not always superior to modern production tubes. There are plenty of horrendous vintage tubes out there, and the same goes for modern production tubes. Many of the vaunted vintage brands of the past have been resurrected by modern companies. So, you have modern production Mullard, Genalex etc. These are unrelated to their namesakes of the past.

Q3) Most people said tube bass are normally "fatter", not as tight like transistor amp. Is there anyway around to get a tighter & punchier bass from tube amp? Or maybe only the super high end models of tube power amp then can achieve it?

A3) This is a commonly held belief that does have an element of truth to it. With a limited damping factor, it is not easy for a tube amp to have the grip and control of a good transistor amp. However, damping factor is not the be-all and end-all of bass quality. Most Class D amps have a very high damping factor - whether their bass quality is to your liking is another matter all together. 

Please advise and share some pointers.
Thank you.

Stvc

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Re: Tube amplifier basics
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2017, 01:17:39 AM »
Hi watchdog,

Thanks for the great info, since you have good experience with tube amp, any chance for you to list a few model that we can explore? Regardless of price point. Prefer integrated.

watchdog

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Re: Tube amplifier basics
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2017, 12:11:05 AM »
Hi watchdog,

Thanks for the great info, since you have good experience with tube amp, any chance for you to list a few model that we can explore? Regardless of price point. Prefer integrated.

Hi there, this is very much dependent on taste. However here are some of my thoughts on some of the amplifier brands that I have personally listened to or owned :-

1. Line Magnetic.

I think this Chinese brand offers great value for money and is very solidly built. I have a friend who owns the LM219ia and I have listened to it a fair bit. Great amplifier and tone, albeit a more vintage type of sound.

2. Conrad Johnson

Doesn't seem to get as much press or publicity as some of the other brands on the market. In it's heyday, this brand was considered one of the great tube amplifier companies out there - personally I still think it is up there with the best. The older models had a more vintage tubey sound to them. The current line-up, especially those with Teflon capacitors sound far more linear and open. I was about to type that they don't have integrated amplifiers anymore, but guess what ? They do now !

3. Leben

Japanese company with very nice tone. I can't speak for all the models, but the CS300XS I have doesn't bother to go for a neutral open tone, but takes a more musical approach.

4. Cayin / Spark

This is the other Chinese tube amplifier company that I take rather seriously. Almost fully point to point wired, built like a tank and very reasonably priced. What's there not to like ? The models I owned, the A50T and A88T didn't bother trying to sound like a vintage amp, they were are as modern sounding as can be. Want a lush, liquid and fat tone ? Look elsewhere.

BTW, many of the integrated tube amp designs are a power amp with a passive pot and input selector - the high input impedance of tube amps make them a great match with passive preamps so long as you have enough voltage to play around with from your source. Feel free to explore the many tube power amps out there too.

HiFiFan

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Re: Tube amplifier basics
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2017, 12:21:23 AM »
Any thoughts on the Mcintosh Tube Amps? They should be one of the living legends in this area, right?

watchdog

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Re: Tube amplifier basics
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2017, 01:26:09 PM »
Any thoughts on the Mcintosh Tube Amps? They should be one of the living legends in this area, right?

The Mcintosh MC275 comes to mind. But never heard one in an extended session, so I can't really comment on the SQ.

Captained

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Re: Tube amplifier basics
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2017, 05:13:03 PM »
Hi Watchdog. Thanks for the very informative pointers on owning a tube amplifier. I own a 1977 Luxkit by Luxman A3700. It uses four (4) EL34 and four smaller tubes. The tubes are not the same brands. I also use an Audio Research SP9 as my pre amp and a pair of JBL L100T for my speakers.

The sound is good especially the vocals.

Questions: someone is offering me a quad set of original National Electronics EL34's. Another is offering me a quad set of original SED "Winged C" El34's. Which quad set is better for you? Or should I change my tubes at all?

Thanks

watchdog

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Re: Tube amplifier basics
« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2017, 05:00:27 AM »
Hi Watchdog. Thanks for the very informative pointers on owning a tube amplifier. I own a 1977 Luxkit by Luxman A3700. It uses four (4) EL34 and four smaller tubes. The tubes are not the same brands. I also use an Audio Research SP9 as my pre amp and a pair of JBL L100T for my speakers.

The sound is good especially the vocals.

Questions: someone is offering me a quad set of original National Electronics EL34's. Another is offering me a quad set of original SED "Winged C" El34's. Which quad set is better for you? Or should I change my tubes at all?

Thanks

Hi there and welcome !

I would do neither actually. The original Winged C are not in production and I don't think the price will be cheap. No experience with the National EL34s.

Yes, you should change your tubes. I don't know your bias arrangements, but if you don't have individual bias pots for each power tube, better to get a matched quartet. Decent and affordable current productions EL34s would be the Electro Harmonix EL34 or 6CA7 (I like this one better), or the JJ E34L. The EH EL34 is the most linear sounding, while the JJ has a fatter and meatier sound. The EH 6CA7 is somewhere in between.

Wizardofoz

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Re: Tube amplifier basics
« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2017, 11:14:38 AM »
I have fond memories of the JBL L100T I used to have...space constraints meant they had to be sold off, along with a slightly smaller 3 way JBL that I can't recall the model now...Vintage JBL and Klipcsh were some great speakers in their day and still can hold their own. Now my only vintage set is a pair of Yamaha NS1000M's

Gone are the days of the renowned Japanese Hifi speakers it seems.

Tubes too are a second class citizen ... Lux made some great gear back then too. I still have a couple of KT88 based rigs but seldom use now - nothing fancy, but sometimes fire them up for some warm old school sounds.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2017, 11:17:44 AM by Wizardofoz »

Ed

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Re: Tube amplifier basics
« Reply #10 on: December 24, 2023, 10:18:14 AM »
Hi Watchdog,

Thanks for your sharing which I find very informative and practical 👍

Just a quick question if cost permitting whether the usual recommendation of tube preamp with ss power amp is necessarily better vs the other way round with ss (or passive) preamp and tube power amp? I listen to a broad range of music particularly classical music and thus value transparency above all other attributes so that I can better hear each performance/recording as it is. My limited experiences has so far led me to using a ss preamp with tube preamp, with the thinking/feeling that it's probably better to keep the transparency as far upstream as possible and leaving the nice bits of coloration towards the end 😅 I know all these are highly dependent on the gears used but just good to learn from you and others if such rationale makes any sense at all and real life experiences 🙏

Many thanks,
Ed