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Singapore HiFi Audio Equipment discussion forum => HiFi Audio Equipment Discussion => Topic started by: jb on November 25, 2016, 10:21:06 PM

Title: Nordost,Cardas,Kimber,MIT, spk cable,I/C, PC electrical properties (L,C,R)
Post by: jb on November 25, 2016, 10:21:06 PM
Recently purchased this Eucol U2817A industrial grade LCR meter, and able to measure resistance of 0.00001 Ohm to 99.9 Mohm , Capacitance 0.00001pF to 99.9 mF and inductance of 0.00001 uH to 99.9 kH  at frequency of 50 Hz to 100Khz.

Will start using the LCR meter to start measure some branded speaker , interconnect and power cord and archive the brand and cable test results on this thread. Any bro that have expensive cable that want it to be measure can PM me privately and later test results publish here. Hopefully we can see a measurement trend on why some branded cable has great performance... also I will be using the LCR meter to design speaker crossover circuit for inductor coil.

(http://i.imgur.com/1tzxNuj.jpg)
Title: Re: Branded speaker cable, interconnect and power cord electrical porperties (L,C,R)
Post by: WildRain on November 27, 2016, 12:33:26 PM
bro....looking forward to your results  :+1:
Title: Re: Branded speaker cable, interconnect and power cord electrical porperties (L,C,R)
Post by: jb on November 27, 2016, 03:45:43 PM
I will received the LCR meter within next two weeks and will start publish some high end brand cable test results... Let me know if you have any great cable that you want me measure and publish here.
Title: Re: Nordost,Cardas,Kimber,MIT, spk cable,I/C, PC electrical properties (L,C,R)
Post by: jb on December 09, 2016, 09:29:28 PM
Finally the LCR meter is here! will start doing some measurement for Nordost cable and archive the test results here..any forumer want to have their cable tested can PM me.


(http://i.imgur.com/kHXDuTVh.jpg)
Title: Re: Nordost,Cardas,Kimber,MIT, spk cable,I/C, PC electrical properties (L,C,R)
Post by: collins on December 09, 2016, 10:19:04 PM
Need to pay test fee or not? ;D
Title: Re: Nordost,Cardas,Kimber,MIT, spk cable,I/C, PC electrical properties (L,C,R)
Post by: jb on December 09, 2016, 10:36:00 PM
haha, I hope I don't have to pay fee for them to bring cable for me to test! ;D
Title: Re: Nordost,Cardas,Kimber,MIT, spk cable,I/C, PC electrical properties (L,C,R)
Post by: Francis Huang on December 11, 2016, 10:00:27 PM
Will you still be doing testing in jan?
Prob can only bring my cables to u ard jan, as i have visitors this few weeks. It will take abt 1 week for the sound to return to normal of i unplug it.
Title: Re: Nordost,Cardas,Kimber,MIT, spk cable,I/C, PC electrical properties (L,C,R)
Post by: jb on December 11, 2016, 10:37:01 PM
No worry, as I will continue to test various branded cable. You can bring to me in Jan for testing.
Title: Re: Nordost,Cardas,Kimber,MIT, spk cable,I/C, PC electrical properties (L,C,R)
Post by: Francis Huang on December 12, 2016, 12:21:46 AM
Am using nordost. Which nordost model is slated for testing?
Title: Re: Nordost,Cardas,Kimber,MIT, spk cable,I/C, PC electrical properties (L,C,R)
Post by: jb on December 12, 2016, 10:43:06 AM
So far I have slotted for measurement:
Nordost :

blue heaven I/C
Blue heaven speaker cable
Blue heaven power cord
red dawn I/C
Hemidall speaker cable
Frey I/C

anyway, the cable measurement only take few minutes for each cable as need hand record down the reading, in future I will automate the measurement using laptop so each cable will only take few sceond.

Title: Re: Nordost,Cardas,Kimber,MIT, spk cable,I/C, PC electrical properties (L,C,R)
Post by: Francis Huang on December 12, 2016, 12:36:59 PM
Noted
I will bring the power cords from the rest of the range
Title: Re: Nordost,Cardas,Kimber,MIT, spk cable,I/C, PC electrical properties (L,C,R)
Post by: Wizardofoz on December 12, 2016, 12:42:03 PM
I can probably chip in the odd Belden too at some stage timing permitting, might bring the Fluke LCR along for the comparison too.
Title: Re: Nordost,Cardas,Kimber,MIT, spk cable,I/C, PC electrical properties (L,C,R)
Post by: jb on December 12, 2016, 12:56:48 PM
No problem... just let me know in advance, so as able to arrange the timing schedule.
Title: Re: Nordost,Cardas,Kimber,MIT, spk cable,I/C, PC electrical properties (L,C,R)
Post by: jb on December 14, 2016, 12:09:42 AM
Just do a quick measurement of the Nordost speaker cable:

Blue heaven:
Freq = 1Khz , L=3.3uH , R=0.06 Ohm ,  when speaker wire coil together and measured as  L=11uH , R=0.06 Ohm

Heimdall:
freq = 1 Khz, L=3.55uH , R=0.04 Ohm

From this measurement , it can be concluded that higher tier cable of same brand  the resistance will be lower, and don't laugh at some user that use clip to float the cable in air, as by doing so they just reduce the self inductance of the speaker cable. But actually all u need to do is just lay the cable straight so that it does not cross and the cable inductance will reduced. Also as the cable resistance is extremely low, it makes sense to have the speaker contact clean properly and remove the oxidation so u get the best low resistance contact.
Title: Re: Nordost,Cardas,Kimber,MIT, spk cable,I/C, PC electrical properties (L,C,R)
Post by: jb on December 15, 2016, 11:56:10 AM
some Nordost cable electrical parameter measurement test results as attached. please noted some speaker cable the resistance is extreme low, so use a good contact solution to clean and make sure you have solid low resistance to get the full benefit of the cable.
Title: Re: Nordost,Cardas,Kimber,MIT, spk cable,I/C, PC electrical properties (L,C,R)
Post by: jb on December 19, 2016, 11:04:00 PM
update with Cardas cable etc... Cardas cable has high inductance and resistance at high frequency, so will be a warm cable as it roll off high freq.
Title: Re: Nordost,Cardas,Kimber,MIT, spk cable,I/C, PC electrical properties (L,C,R)
Post by: instek_88 on December 22, 2016, 08:19:18 PM
The quality of cables are beyond the measurement of LCR values. I give some examples:

(1) How the cables are terminated will make a difference
(2) What plating of the termination will make a difference
(3) How the cable response to microphonics will make a difference
(4) The shielding of the cables will make a difference. This will affect how much noise the cable will pick up along its length and how much noise it will emit
(5) Even how you connect the cables to the socket makes a difference. The orientation, the contact pressure, and etc ,will affect the sound.

etc ... etc ... etc ...
Title: Re: Nordost,Cardas,Kimber,MIT, spk cable,I/C, PC electrical properties (L,C,R)
Post by: jb on December 31, 2016, 06:11:14 PM
The Cable measurement of LCR values will show a general trend of cable design of a particular brand or design technique. It will capture for example if you use different plating material with lower conductivity and show lower resistance. or flat sheet design like Nordost cable tends to have lower capacitance as compare to MIT cable that have high capacitance. Hopefully with more data base we can see a general trend of cable characteristic for "warm cable" vs " bright cable".

Anyway, attached is the latest update of additional cable and also include parallel capacitance measurement.
Title: Re: Nordost,Cardas,Kimber,MIT, spk cable,I/C, PC electrical properties (L,C,R)
Post by: WCK on January 08, 2017, 03:11:32 PM
Just do a quick measurement of the Nordost speaker cable:

Blue heaven:
Freq = 1Khz , L=3.3uH , R=0.06 Ohm ,  when speaker wire coil together and measured as  L=11uH , R=0.06 Ohm

Heimdall:
freq = 1 Khz, L=3.55uH , R=0.04 Ohm

From this measurement , it can be concluded that higher tier cable of same brand  the resistance will be lower, and don't laugh at some user that use clip to float the cable in air, as by doing so they just reduce the self inductance of the speaker cable. But actually all u need to do is just lay the cable straight so that it does not cross and the cable inductance will reduced. Also as the cable resistance is extremely low, it makes sense to have the speaker contact clean properly and remove the oxidation so u get the best low resistance contact.

In the other thread I was inform a 0.0xOhm speaker cable resistance was high. If so, then most of the speakers cables have similar resistance levels. If so, can't be high right? Should be more like average, based on your test results.
Title: Re: Nordost,Cardas,Kimber,MIT, spk cable,I/C, PC electrical properties (L,C,R)
Post by: jb on January 08, 2017, 11:04:22 PM
I think for speaker cable design, those in the mid tier price range , the resistance will be in 0.0x Ohm range, their highest tier price range then will be in 0.00X Ohm range, as they use lower AWG wire to lower the resistance but will cost more.

But if your resistance level is at 0.X Ohm, then I think this cable will have too much voltage drop during short bass burst....
Title: Re: Nordost,Cardas,Kimber,MIT, spk cable,I/C, PC electrical properties (L,C,R)
Post by: jb on January 08, 2017, 11:59:58 PM
For Nordost Hemidall spk cable design as an example: it used 9 pcs of 22 AWG copper wire... so base on 22 AWG chart of 0.053 Ohm/m, a 3m cable of one wire resistance is 0.053 X 3= 0.159 Ohm @ 3m

Thus 9 pcs of wire will give a total resistance of 0.017 ohm @ 3m , but actual measured resistance is at 0.047 Ohm which is higher due to dielectric loss of material .

For Nordost Ordin 2 use 13 pcs of 20 AWG wire and will give a calculated resistance of 0.007 Ohm @ 3m
Title: Re: Nordost,Cardas,Kimber,MIT, spk cable,I/C, PC electrical properties (L,C,R)
Post by: jb on January 23, 2017, 07:58:44 PM
Today do an actual Epos speaker impedance measurement with and without speaker cable connected. The measurement shown that impedance is not constant across freq from 50hz to 100Khz. with and without spk cable does not change the resistance , but it will change the capacitance and inductance that the power amplifier will feed to and sound may change with different spk cable as impedance can be different now.

Title: Re: Nordost,Cardas,Kimber,MIT, spk cable,I/C, PC electrical properties (L,C,R)
Post by: jb on November 23, 2017, 12:29:42 PM
Updated with Nordost Frey speaker cable measurement:

(https://i.imgur.com/4xbjWL0h.jpg)
Title: Re: Nordost,Cardas,Kimber,MIT, spk cable,I/C, PC electrical properties (L,C,R)
Post by: jb on November 23, 2017, 12:32:56 PM
updated with Nordost Frey power cord measurement:

(https://i.imgur.com/M2fLJ2kh.jpg)
Title: Re: Nordost,Cardas,Kimber,MIT, spk cable,I/C, PC electrical properties (L,C,R)
Post by: WildRain on November 26, 2017, 01:50:03 PM
updated with Nordost Frey power cord measurement:

(https://i.imgur.com/M2fLJ2kh.jpg)

V.V interesting bro...wondering how the heimdall would compare
Title: Re: Nordost,Cardas,Kimber,MIT, spk cable,I/C, PC electrical properties (L,C,R)
Post by: jb on November 27, 2017, 02:48:22 PM
I think for Heimdall the cable resistance will be higher as the wire use will be less...